I've run across this for several characters, but I'll stick with one very prevalent one for this discussion. The character "Bishop" is linked to 569 entries. In every single one of these issues is a Marvel comic (yes I checked) and every one refers to the same character.

The character in reference is usually referred to as Bishop, but the characters actual name is Lucas Bishop. It's just his last name. I don't think a separate tag is needed when they're just calling him by his last name. Just because J. Jonah Jameson usually shouts out "Parker!" doesn't mean that there should be separate entries for "Peter Parker" and "Parker." I could go on.

So I'd suggest invalidating the entry and making people use "Lucas Bishop." However, since this is a fairly large change I'd like to get other people's opinions first. I also think that something to this effect should be listed in the guidelines if people agree with me. Thanks.

Why not open a change request on one of the issues that he is in, then go to characters, type his name in the search, and when it brings up Bishop click on the edit button and add his first name to the existing entry?
I'm not that familiar with Marvel, but is his first name common knowledge or is it something that's only been mentioned a few times in the many years of his existence?

There area actually a couple characters like this, Thor and Thor Odinson, Loki and Loki Laufeyson, and Bishop and Lucas Bishop (as you pointed out). I'm sure there are others.

Teechnically, only one needs to be used, so If we can determine which name is used in the DB more, then edit that name to what the name should be and then we can proceed to remove the others from the listings.

I think this sounds reasonable. I'm not a big X-Men fan, but I think you're right that it's just his last name - kinda like Cage is just Luke Cage's last name. This is similar to the cleanup we just did with married characters.

Some thoughts:

We might want to consider changing the "Lucas Bishop" name to something like "Bishop / Lucas Bishop" to reduce confusion down the road. Someone more familar with the character can comment if that makes sense.

Thor and Loki, being characters from mythology, have been used by many other companies. I don't think the other companies use the same surnames Marvel uses. So we can't merge those.

If we do decide to go this route, we shouldn't do the cleanup manually - if we ask him nicely, Mr M can do some scripting magic like he did for married characters. We'd just submit CRs to the names to make one invalid and ask him to merge the rest.

I disagree. I look at this as two different names. Bishop is his code name just Like Dr Strange is the code name for Dr Steven Strange. These are rare but not unusual situations and should be handled as seperate entries. Just using your Bishop example. If I was entering information into the database or looking for that character how would I know which Bishop was which. Currently there are a dozen "bishop" entries, including Bill, Casey, Lucas & Red. If I didn't know his first name how would I be able to find him? Bill Bishop doesn't go by the name Bishop. If you do a search for "Bishop" Bill will come up, but not the code name of just "Bishop". The code name will come up alone or in conjunction with Casey. I've never really liked this way of listing the names, but I understand the reasoning behind it. While it clutters the listings with names it allows you to search by either code name or true name. There are stories where Clark Kent appears but Superman doesn't or Matt Murdock the lawyer appears but not Daredevil, and if ever Casey Bishop appears and not Bishop you'll be glad you have the search option as it currently is.

You don't have to ask me nicely. I can do a merge on whatever you guys decide.

Are you talking about completely removing Bishop from the Db, if so then I think that would be wrong, if you got a person named Bishop where would they fall in at if thats all their called? I know alot of different names and such in the DB slows the search engine down but alot of the single names that are being merged need to stay separate as there can be instances of just the single name being used.

If they are going to be merged, then I think it should be as Steve suggested, "Bishop / Lucas Bishop"

Unlike the examples given (Peter Parker, Luke Cage), it was only recently that Lucas was tacked on as his first name. He went for more than a decade as, simply, Bishop and I think there's probably a large portion of the fanbase that don't know Claremont (it was Claremont right) threw on a first name.

I agree that the Bishop / Lucas Bishop, may be the best way to go.

Also, I concede on the Thor and Loki as it is just Marvel that gave them the last names, and they are definitely used elsewhere.

My disagreement wasn't with you Steve. We were typing at the same time. Your option would work, but as I said it wouldn't allow you to keep the character and alias seperate. If we're going to combine them why not combine every character with their alias? (which is what I've always prefered anyway.)

But is Bishop really an alias or were they always just calling him by his last name. I think that is the debate right now.

He was named years later, but my opinion is that, like Luke Cage, it should just be Lucas Bishop, but to the point that not many people may know the name I think Bishop / Lucas Bishop should suffice.

Being an X-Men fan boy here, I agree with the merged listing "Bishop / Lucas Bishop", and I can think of some other adjectives to add here if you read Cable or Messiah Complex.

I often saw this, thought about getting around to bringing it up, but obviously never did.

I think you can make the case here that from the beginning, it wasn't a code name, it was just everyone calling him his last name. Kinda like where Jean Grey quit being called by a code name (a different thread for a different time on that one), but the need for two names is if they really are separate. If someone is being called just by the short name, I think it is one entry. I'd vote yes on Thor and Loki, same as here and treated with the slash to show both in the system.

As I stated earlier there are characters that many people do not know last names for & if we want others to help with data we should not make it hard for them to add to it. How many here know whoDennis the Menace is ? More than likely we all do, but how many can give me Joey, Tommy, Margret, & Gina's last names. Maybe 2 with out looking them up. My thought was if we want to help guide people to the right names maybe the title of the book could be added to character referance.

such as title______ name___________
then when the name gets entered only chatacters names that have been used in that title would be found & If need be a space for description after name so that if the submitter was still unsure someone who knew or needed to find out would have a better place to start.

I can tell you the more we get caught in the details we get on some of these issues, the more confusing it will be to get people to do the change requests.


I've been reading comics since well before BISHOP came out. I have added BISHOP as a character on many requests. I don't know who the heck this Lucas Bishop guy is.

If he had not been called by his commonly known name/code name, I would not have added him to the requests.

It would be a mmstake, in my opinion, to refer to any character soley by his given name when the vast majority of people know them by another name.

I would also agree that "Bishop / Lucas Bishop" , may be the best way to go.

If you're proposing "Thor / Thor Odinson", then yes - I could go with that as well. I've never added the Thor Odinson or Loki Whatsisname myself cause I didn't know those names were in use in the Marvel universe. :)

That's exactly what I'm talking about....I've never heard Loki's last name either.....

It's actually silly how they get ther last names to.

Thor's father is Odin, so Thor Odinson. Well Loki's father is Laufey, so Loki Laufeyson.

Lack artistic thinking with the names.

I think it should be left as is. As said in previous posts Bishop was known as simply "Bishop" for years before he acquired the first name Lucas. "Bishop" should be treated as a code-name and left separate from his real name.

In this case you would have to add Lucas Bishop to all the issues he appeared in as his real name as well as Bishop as his code name.

I think the slashed name of Bishop / Lucas Bishop is the way to go.

But at one point he was known only as 'Bishop'.

I think that makes it a valid entry.

If someone who read comics in the early-mid 90's was searching for all Bishop related issues, he'd have no clue to look for 'Lucas' Bishop. he'd only search 'Bishop' because when he was reading, that was the only alias for the character. Bishop's first name wasn't revealed for awhile.

It'd be like someone having no idea to search for 'James Howlett' or 'Anna Raven' in order to find a Rogue or Wolverine comic.