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fatherjeff
Friday, September 28, 2007 7:58:30 AM
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I'm not a fan of DC comics. But I'm open-minded enough to poke through them once in a while to see if they can change my mind. But here is one reason I can't get on board:

I read in Wizard their article/explanation of the Multiverse. I just don't get it. 52 earths? Why 52? How does this clean up continuity? How do you know which universe is which? At least 3 of those earths are overrun with Nazis? What?

I read Crisis on Infinite Earths a while back and actually thought it was a good idea.

Is it like Marvel's alternate universes now? Someone explain...
BurningDoom
Saturday, September 29, 2007 12:54:47 AM
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It's a little bit confusing, but as a comic fan it shouldn't be anything to you, here it is:


Current DC Multiverse (52 Multiverse):
The Multiverse is all the known Universes of DC Comics. The mainstream Earth, which in Marvel is Earth-616, in DC is known as New-Earth. All other universes are parallel universes to that Universe. It has been established that there are 52 of these Universes. Not all of them have been explored or are known yet, as this is all fairly new. Universes that are known:
-New-Earth: The Mainstream DC Universe
-Earth-2: The Golden Age DC Universe
-Earth-3: The opposite Evil Universe of the Crime Syndicate and Qward.
-Earth-4: Charlton Universe
-Earth-5: Fawcett Universe
-Earth-8: Lord Havok and the Extremists
-Earth-10: WWII Nazi Universe
-Earth-13: Vertigo Universe
-Earth-17: Atomic Knights
-Earth-19: Victorian Age Batman
-Earth-21: New Frontier
-Earth-26: Captain Carrot and the Zoo Crew
-Earth-30: Russian Superman
-Earth-32: Green Lantern is Batman Universe
-Earth-43: Vampire Batman
-Earth-48: Forerunners Earth
-Earth-50: Wildstorm Universe
-Earth-?: Tangent Universe
-Earth-?: JLA: The Nail

Original DC Multiverse (Pre-1985)
This multiverse was the original DC Universe. It lasted from it's initial printings of characters in the 1930s (Mainstream began on Earth-2 the Golden Age, then ended up on Earth-1 the Silver Age) until the Crisis on Infinite Earths eradicated it in 1985. This was an infinite number of Parallel Universes. The Mainstream DC from the 1930s-1949 was Earth-2. Then when Silver Age characters began popping-up, the mainstream DC Universe became Earth-1. This was not established, however, until the 1st meeting of the Justice League and Justice Society in the early Silver Age. Soon there were many Earths, a Golden Age one, a Silver Age, one where the nazis won WWII, Evil Earth, Fawcett Earth, and on and on. Soon editors at DC were worried this was getting too confusing for readers and did away with it in a legendary series known as "Crisis on Infinite Earths" which took place in 1985. After that and up until 52 ended, there was only one mainstream DC-Universe and no established parallel Earths. Known Earths from the original era:
-Earth-Prime: "Our" real Earth, Earth where Superboy: Prime is only Super-Hero.
-Earth-1: Silver Age DC
-Earth-2: Golden Age DC
-Earth-4: Charlton Comics
-Earth-6: Lord Volt Earth & Lady Quark
-Earth-8: Was Supposed to be have home to Kyle Rayner, Ronnie Raymond, Donna Troy, and Jason Todd if it was allowed to continue.
-Earth-12: Inferior Five
-Earth-178: Earth where Superman became Nova
-Earth-S: Fawcett Comics Characters
-Earth-X: Uncle Sam and the Freedom Fighters, Earth where Nazis won WWII
-Earth-M: Marvel Universe
-Earth-C: Captain Carrot & The Zoo Crew Universe

-Nate-
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MACJR
Saturday, September 29, 2007 4:00:38 AM
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I am all for a multiverse more like it was originally in DC comics. Limiting a multiverse to 52 Earths makes about as much sense as Supergirl having stomach problem after taking a gulp of alcohol... or Superman being affected by tear gas as I read in a 1990s issue (don't remember which issue... just that it was incredibly lame). Hello, Superman, Supergirl, invulnerable to the extent they can bathe in acid and fly through the vacuum of space without a space suit. Anyway... moving on.

I think limiting a miltiverse to 52 planes of existence shows an incredibly limited imagination. ;)

In quantum physics, yes, on the radical side, the theory of a multiverse is that it is pretty much infinite in scope. There could be many billions of Earths almost identical to our own. The further away you get the more different they could be until you get to places that seem nothing at all like anything we know or have experience of. It is even possible that the laws of physics could be different in an alternate reality. So much so that you could find yourself in a universe where you could not exist at all and thus cease to exist as soon as you arrive there. Oops.


MACJR
MACJR'S Mini-Verse² Forum - For people who like to talk about science and nature, sci-fi, current events, social-political and or religious topics... or just hang out and converse in a civilized manner.
VaDMoore757
Monday, October 01, 2007 12:59:44 AM
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BurningDoom wrote:

-Earth-M: Marvel Universe
-Nate-


I appreciate that. That did help clear things up somewhat, but why did DC feel the need to acknowledge a "Marvel" Universe.? This is the one of the rival comic company, correct? Seems like it could be endorsing the competition, lol. Also is there an Earth-XXX that Marvel uses to identify a "DC Universe?"
Countdown #31 when Jimmy Olsen was being analyzed by Cadmus:

Dr. Sterling Roquette: Just kick back and, as Mr. Cannon here so eloquently put it, relax. Let the AMBIENT NUCLEAR ULTRA-SPECTROGRAPH do its thing.
Jimmy Olsen: Why don't you guys just use an acronym?
Dr. Sterling Roquette: You think about that.


My Pull List

Marvel
Astonishing X-Men, X-Men, New X-Men, X-Factor, Uncanny X-Men, Cable & Deadpool, Black Panther, Runaways, Ironman, Mighty Avengers, Avengers Initiative, New Avengers, Thor, Moon Knight, Amazing Spider-Girl, Nova, Fantastic Four, Amazing Spider-Man

DC
All Star Batman & Robin, Justice League of America, Flash, Supergirl, All Star Superman

Other Publishers
Midnighter, The Authority, Wetworks, Devi, Gen13, Madame Mirage

BurningDoom
Monday, October 01, 2007 1:39:57 AM
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VaDMoore757 wrote:
BurningDoom wrote:

-Earth-M: Marvel Universe
-Nate-


I appreciate that. That did help clear things up somewhat, but why did DC feel the need to acknowledge a "Marvel" Universe.? This is the one of the rival comic company, correct? Seems like it could be endorsing the competition, lol. Also is there an Earth-XXX that Marvel uses to identify a "DC Universe?"


They did this for the crossovers they had from time to time with Marvel. I don't think Marvel has any Earth number for the DC Universe though, at least none that I know of.

-Nate-
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MACJR
Monday, October 01, 2007 1:43:59 AM
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VaDMoore757 wrote:
BurningDoom wrote:

-Earth-M: Marvel Universe
-Nate-


I appreciate that. That did help clear things up somewhat, but why did DC feel the need to acknowledge a "Marvel" Universe.? This is the one of the rival comic company, correct? Seems like it could be endorsing the competition, lol. Also is there an Earth-XXX that Marvel uses to identify a "DC Universe?"


Maybe because of the Marvel and DC team up comics they produce every so often. Like, Superman and the Fantastic Four and The Justice League of American and The Avengers.

Updated and edited: I just re-read the other posts, and the post by BurningDoom that beat mine by a couple minutes. It probably is the Marvel DC Team up universe, but I cannot say for sure.


MACJR
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fatherjeff
Monday, October 01, 2007 7:56:48 AM
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MACJR wrote:
I am all for a multiverse more like it was originally in DC comics. Limiting a multiverse to 52 Earths makes about as much sense as Supergirl having stomach problem after taking a gulp of alcohol... or Superman being affected by tear gas as I read in a 1990s issue (don't remember which issue... just that it was incredibly lame). Hello, Superman, Supergirl, invulnerable to the extent they can bathe in acid and fly through the vacuum of space without a space suit. Anyway... moving on.

I think limiting a miltiverse to 52 planes of existence shows an incredibly limited imagination. ;)

In quantum physics, yes, on the radical side, the theory of a multiverse is that it is pretty much infinite in scope. There could be many billions of Earths almost identical to our own. The further away you get the more different they could be until you get to places that seem nothing at all like anything we know or have experience of. It is even possible that the laws of physics could be different in an alternate reality. So much so that you could find yourself in a universe where you could not exist at all and thus cease to exist as soon as you arrive there. Oops.


MACJR



Yes, this is my point. And it seems like every character has a different earth? That's bonkers. But they can vibrate (!) into another earth? I just think this is lame and very limited. And why would some of these characters exist in some earths and not others. Why isn't there a Bruce Wayne born in every universe?
Bitstream
Monday, October 01, 2007 9:23:47 AM
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Personnally I really like the return to a multiverse and I think it opens up doors for more creativity. Not only do we have the regular DC universe, but now once again writers and artists can imagine cool 'riffs' on that universe. Personnally I am looking forward to learning about all the new parallel earths in the post 52 DC Universe.

And I can't really see how 52 earths is going to limit anything. If you notice in the reply above, the pre-crisis DC Universe only had like 15 alternate earths and that was over the vourse of 50+ years of writing!

Also the whole vibrating thing.... I think its essentially only speedsters that can do that right? Like the Flashes and thats it pretty much. Anyways... for you non-DC fans, the whole multiverse thing is so not something to be feared. It's just another tool for the writers to be able to write cool stories. You can read Batman, Superman etc. without having to worry about it too much... unless ofcourse it happens to be a Countdown tie in or something.

BurningDoom
Monday, October 01, 2007 1:06:40 PM
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fatherjeff wrote:
MACJR wrote:
I am all for a multiverse more like it was originally in DC comics. Limiting a multiverse to 52 Earths makes about as much sense as Supergirl having stomach problem after taking a gulp of alcohol... or Superman being affected by tear gas as I read in a 1990s issue (don't remember which issue... just that it was incredibly lame). Hello, Superman, Supergirl, invulnerable to the extent they can bathe in acid and fly through the vacuum of space without a space suit. Anyway... moving on.

I think limiting a miltiverse to 52 planes of existence shows an incredibly limited imagination. ;)

In quantum physics, yes, on the radical side, the theory of a multiverse is that it is pretty much infinite in scope. There could be many billions of Earths almost identical to our own. The further away you get the more different they could be until you get to places that seem nothing at all like anything we know or have experience of. It is even possible that the laws of physics could be different in an alternate reality. So much so that you could find yourself in a universe where you could not exist at all and thus cease to exist as soon as you arrive there. Oops.


MACJR



Yes, this is my point. And it seems like every character has a different earth? That's bonkers. But they can vibrate (!) into another earth? I just think this is lame and very limited. And why would some of these characters exist in some earths and not others. Why isn't there a Bruce Wayne born in every universe?


I don't think you read DC at all, do you? Cause that sounded very ignorant, especially after posting what I posted and all. I did state that all the ongoing titles and main characters are take place on one Earth, the mainstream Earth. And if you read DC you would realized that there pretty much are different Bruce Waynes on each variant Earth.

To put it simply, the DC Multiverse is really no different than Marvels. If you can understand Marvel's Multiverse, there should be no problem at all with DC's. It's the same deal, most titles all take place on Earth-616, and other realities are just that, alternate realities.

-Nate-
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stevetuk
Monday, October 01, 2007 2:39:40 PM
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MACJR wrote:

I think limiting a miltiverse to 52 planes of existence shows an incredibly limited imagination. ;)


MACJR


Or just a handy number that ties into the title of the weekly comic book you've been pushing!
MACJR
Monday, October 01, 2007 9:31:23 PM
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stevetuk wrote:
MACJR wrote:

I think limiting a miltiverse to 52 planes of existence shows an incredibly limited imagination. ;)


MACJR


Or just a handy number that ties into the title of the weekly comic book you've been pushing!


No kidding. Has DC missed even one opportunity to work in a 52 reference?

I have to say that I do like much of the storyline so far (much, but not all), but it is getting a bit costly to keep up with it all.


MACJR
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MACJR
Monday, October 01, 2007 10:19:51 PM
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fatherjeff wrote:
MACJR wrote:
I am all for a multiverse more like it was originally in DC comics. Limiting a multiverse to 52 Earths makes about as much sense as Supergirl having stomach problem after taking a gulp of alcohol... or Superman being affected by tear gas as I read in a 1990s issue (don't remember which issue... just that it was incredibly lame). Hello, Superman, Supergirl, invulnerable to the extent they can bathe in acid and fly through the vacuum of space without a space suit. Anyway... moving on.

I think limiting a miltiverse to 52 planes of existence shows an incredibly limited imagination. ;)

In quantum physics, yes, on the radical side, the theory of a multiverse is that it is pretty much infinite in scope. There could be many billions of Earths almost identical to our own. The further away you get the more different they could be until you get to places that seem nothing at all like anything we know or have experience of. It is even possible that the laws of physics could be different in an alternate reality. So much so that you could find yourself in a universe where you could not exist at all and thus cease to exist as soon as you arrive there. Oops.


MACJR



Yes, this is my point. And it seems like every character has a different earth? That's bonkers. But they can vibrate (!) into another earth? I just think this is lame and very limited. And why would some of these characters exist in some earths and not others. Why isn't there a Bruce Wayne born in every universe?



No, not a different earth for each character, but an earth for many of the characters that were originally published by other publishers owned, or acquired, by DC were placed on an earth in a universe of there own.

Some speculate that if a multiverse really exist that the different universes are separated by vibrating on a different frequency... thus, the Flash family of characters have the ability to travel between universes. Yes, perhaps a bit corny but it does make sense if you think about it. If you can believe that a Flash can exist, it works.

As for a single person, or character, being on every earth in the multiverse, no, not necessarily so, in fact, this is not likely at all. Think about it, if each earth is different in some way, even if almost identical to the earths nearest to it, and look basically identical to ours, they are still different in some way. The further you get away from you’re the earth of your universe the more things change. In a nearby universe your parents may never have met and you were never born. In a universe a bit further away your great, great, great, great grandparents never met so much of your recent family tree was never born. Think how different societies would diverge as more and more of history develops on different paths. Get even further away and the humans didn't even evolve. Maybe a different branch of the primate family evolved as our branch of chimps died out, or maybe another animal evolved into the dominate race and the primates never did.

And no matter what others may think, I feel that limiting the number of earths to 52 is not at all realistic in a multiverse theme. ;)

I can go along with them only knowing about 52 earths, or they can only get to 52 earths, but not that there are only 52 earths.


MACJR
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stevetuk
Friday, October 05, 2007 8:13:47 AM
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The Earth-15 in this week's Countdown seemed a bit dull didn't it? No problem with just 52 Earth's if they have radical and interesting differences, but Earth-15 seemed a bit of a lame duck.
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