After Crisis on Infinite Earths "rebooted" the entire DC continuity, only the Psycho Pirate remembered the multi-verse.
But then it was only Psycho Pirate and Harbinger.
But then it was only those two, the Guardians of the Universe, and a few members of the Green Lantern Corps like Kilowog who lost his home world during the crisis or Lady Quark...
Now that we've been through the Infinite Crisis and the Final Crisis is pending, just about every DC Universe character seems to know all about all the current 52 universes as well as the infinite universes prior to CoIE!

As I'm reading through my post-CoIE Superman comics I've come across a few instances where Superman himself mentions the Crisis.
I can't remember the first instance, but the second time I noticed it was during the L.E.G.I.O.N./Superman cross-over (AOS Annual #2 & L.E.G.I.O.N. Annual #1, 1990) when Superman mentions that he fought against the Anti-Monitor with Lady Quark(!).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Byrne's Superman was supposed to be a composite of all the pre-CoIE iterations of Superman.

This being said, my questions are as follows:
1. Which, if any, of the pre-CoIE Superman stories are included in the "continuity" of Byrne's Superman?
2. Which, if any, of the pre-CoIE Superman stories are included in the "continuity" of the further retcons of Superman since Byrne?
3. Where would CoIE go in the 'reading order' of current Superman titles? After Byrne's "Man of Steel" mini-series?

I'm not looking for theories or conjecture -- I can sit around and make crap up just fine by myself, thanks.

Just trying to keep my LCS in buisness.

TIA!!

I'm a huge fan of COIE and the early Post-Crisis DC Universe. From what I've seen of that era; the editors and creators at DC weren't sure themselves what to include and what not to. It was about 2 years before everything was really worked out. There were things that were messed far longer than 2 years though, such as Hawkman, Power Girl, LOSH, and the JSA.

Now, as for who remembered what, here's what I got:
Everyone that was a part of the Crisis remembered it, but not the way it happened. All they remembered was that they fought The Anti-Monitor, and there were casualties as a result. But none of them, except a very select few, remembered that there was ever a multiverse or alternate versions of themselves. I believe that the only ones that remembered how it really went down were Psycho Pirate & Harbinger.

When it comes to Superman specifically, here's what I'd consider continuity for Post-Crisis:
Consider the "Man of Steel" mini-series done by John Byrne in 1986 as the 1st Post-Crisis Superman story. Superman (Vol. 2) #1 directly followed that mini-series. That and anything after it should be considered part of the Post-Crisis Superman continuity. The Golden Age and Silver Age stories still happened, it's just that they no longer took place in the 40s or in the 60s. And any stories involving alternate realities and alternate characters were erased from continuity. Things were tweaked here and there to fit that idea, such as Black Canary now being a founding member of the Justice League rather than Wonder Woman.

I don't think that Byrne's Superman was supposed to be an amalgamation of all the Pre-Crisis versions. From what I understood, Superman was radically levelled down in power, so his Rogues Gallery were more of a threat. He also seemed, to me at least, more relatable and more human. He seemed to care more about the common man and everyday problems, rather than kickin it in Alpha Centari somewhere.

I really miss that era of Superman. The modern Superman is just ridiculous to me. Superman has a super-kid (DC better not try to replace Conner with "it"), there's Krypto the Super-Dog, Superman's power-levels are insanely unrealistic again, and we have a rainbow of Kryptonite. I better stop ranting while I'm ahead...

-Nate-

My understanding was the 1986 reboot rewrote Superman's history but did not take him out of DC continuity like they did with Wonder Woman. The intent was a fresh start, not trying to make a composite of fifty years of history. All Superman title stories were voided, but other titles like JLA remained in effect with creative modifications when necessary. Byrne started over, so you'll see when rereading the old Byrne issues that he would reintroduce characters when he wanted to include them in continuity, usually with a wink and a nod to the original story (Brainiac, Metallo, Terra Man, Toyman, Parasite, etc.). DC still follows that approach as they pull in old Silver Age stories.

As for the Crisis, the heroes remembered some details (Red skies, the final battle with the Anti-Monitor, and deaths of characters like the Flash or Dove who weren't retconned) but not the existence of the multiverse prior to the Crisis. Characters like Wonder Woman, Supergirl, and Huntress were forgotten entirely (except by Psycho Pirate and Harbinger, as you mentioned). The new continuity and timeline were outlined in the History of the DC Universe miniseries, though I don't remember if it integrated all of Byrne's changes (I seem to remember that it ended hinting at the arrival of the new/current Wonder Woman, which was soon after Byrne's reboot).

As BurningDoom said (he posted while I was composing this), it took years to completely work out the details, and they botched some characters like Hawkman in the process. There were some great series like Secret Origins that filled in the blanks by adding the details of characters' status in the new continuity.

Over the intervening two decades, DC tried to bring back the multiverse (as Hypertime) with Zero Hour, but that all seems to be essentially forgotten.

During Infinite Crisis, the previous existence of the multiverse was revealed, though I'm not sure how many characters other than Power Girl actually regained their memories. I haven't caught up with 52 onwards, so I can't comment on how widespread the knowledge of the 52 Universes is.

As for your questions:
1. Which, if any, of the pre-CoIE Superman stories are included in the "continuity" of Byrne's Superman?
Byrne reintroduced all the major Superman characters and villains, so the old Superman titles are essentially voided, but other Superman appearances in titles like the Pre-COIA JLA happened, though some details changed.
2. Which, if any, of the pre-CoIE Superman stories are included in the "continuity" of the further retcons of Superman since Byrne?
I haven't seen any older issues referenced in newer stories (the days of asterisked editor's notes with "As seen in issue #165" seem to be over). I don't think any of the older stories are back in play. Instead, DC is retelling relevant ones as needed. It doesn't make much sense to bring back details from 25 years ago that don't fit into current continuity. If a character or situation is needed, the creators will reintroduce and retell the story.
3. Where would CoIE go in the 'reading order' of current Superman titles? After Byrne's "Man of Steel" mini-series?
COIE would have occurred some time during the "Man of Steel" miniseries. Still, the Crisis as remembered has never been told in detail, so COIE won't fit into regular Superman continuity exactly. It's kind of a moot question, since there were too many changes. The events IN COIE are not the same events AFTER COIE due to the timeline changes. Incidentally, Byrne's reboot wasn't considered a direct result of the Crisis. Superman made it through still remembering Supergirl's death, and his reboot took place a few months later with no direct reference in continuity as to the cause. Hawkman, Green Arrow, Captain Atom, and even Batman (with Year 1) were rebooted the same way (though Batman and Green Arrow weren't fully rebooted, just tweaked). These were described as "ripples" from the Crisis as history realigned, then later as temporal disruptions caused by the Earth-2 Superman trying to break out of his pocket reality at the beginning of Infinite Crisis (as were some of the other retcons like Byrne's reboot of the Doom Patrol a couple of years ago). Wonder Woman, in contrast, was killed and retconned out of existence at the very end of the Crisis (a very ignominious death compared to Flash and Supergirl), and was reintroduced by George Perez as a new entry to the DCU a year or two later.

I loved Crisis but thats not really why I'm commenting here. I just wanted to say I'm impressed with you guys and your knowledge of comic book history. I think its awesome. Thanks for being so informative, guys.

I agree with Fate, very insightful, thanks.

Thanks! I'm a big fan, too. I started seriously collecting with the Crisis crossovers (previously, it was only All-Star Squadron, Infinity, Inc. and whatever else caught my fancy that I could afford), so that time period is pretty ingrained in my memory (though it has been 25 years, so some of my recollections may be fuzzy). The Byrne Superman reboot was another big event, and these questions all came up back then, too. There were a lot of protests about the changes (not unlike BND in Spider-Man today), but I think it all worked out.

Well, you've certainly provided a lot to mull over.
My head is spinning!

Thanks guys!

For me, Byrne's Superman IS Superman.

My first super-hero comic was Emerald Dawn #1. I picked it up when it first came out -- I was 16 when it came out and it totally blew me away.
I got all 6 in the series and then started getting all the Volume 3 issues of the new GL series that started in 1990.

It wasn't until AOS #473 that I read any Superman, and the only reason I bought it was because Hal and Guy were on the cover.
My next purchase was Action #662. We were on our way out of town for the weekend and I saw it in the Mini-Mart. The cover immediately grabbed me and I was hooked on Superman from then on as well. But I had no idea what the Crisis was or that it had even occured.
I didn't start getting Supes back-issues until several years later and didn't get everything from MOS up to 1990 until just a few years ago.

I now have every Superman comic from MOS through 2002 as well as most of the other titles he's appeared in during that time period, but I've only read up through 1999.
I read through from the beginning until I get to the point where I don't have the next Superman issue (regardless of which title) and then I start over at the beginning again.
I get a little further each time because I'm constantly hunting down those back issues.
My old lady thinks I'm nuts...

Nate, brother, you ain't the only one. I have been seriously thinking about dropping Superman and Action (I am that cheesed off). On the plus side (sorta), I had stopped regularly collecting from 1997 til 2006 so I have alot of years of Superman stories before "Birthright" to read as I've been filling in the gaps in my Action, Adventures, MOS and Superman V2 collection.

I grew up with the Silver Age Superman, so I was pretty cheesed off by the reboot. It really screwed up DC continuity, too, since everyone was still trying to make sense of all the changes from Crisis at the same time.

The one thing I really hated was making Superman more like the movie version (I didn't like the radically different version of Krypton and total ignorance of so much canon in the movies).

Still, I did like some of the changes Byrne made, and the character grew on me. Now, I see the Byrne version as the "Official" one, and I've been disappointed by the retcons in recent years that have brought back Krypto, all the different flavors of Kryptonite, etc. The whole point of Byrne's revamp was to get rid of the clutter and ground him a bit more. Now it seems they are bringing it all back.

I'm WAY behind in reading current issues, but I am catching up on Superman right now. I finally read Birthright a few weeks ago, and now I'm reading all the Superman issues from 2002 on. I'm into the 2004 issues right now, so I've only seen a few of the changes you're talking about.

I thought Birthright was utter crap...
I filed it away with my Elseworlds stuff until somebody pointed out in a thread on another forum that it was a new retcon.
The artwork is absolutely terrible, and the writing is quite bad as well.

I have to agree. Byrne's characterization of Superman is what got me "officially" collecting comics. (Up to that point, it was a random Archie, or maybe old Batman or Superman). I loved that it was Clark pretending to be Superman, rather than the other way around. I think I liked Clark when he was more human, and not a god among men.

Precisely!

The goal was to make a more relatable Superman, and I think Byrne did a magnificent job of achieving that goal.
Some call it the Marvel-ification of DC, but I don't see it that -- mostly because I've always found Marvel titles to be cheesey and kinda lame...
Everybody has an opinion though!

The way I'd describe it is that during that post-Crisis period of the late 80s and all the way through the 90s, DC was more "serious", more real world relatable than Marvel and it all began with Byrne's Superman. That's what made me a die-hard DC over Marvel guy.

Ditto. I don't know what else to add here.

I'm seeing this more and more in the new version of JLA, but my question is "When?". After the reboot Superman is approached numerous times by the various iterations of Justice Leagues and turns them down repeatedly - he never joins until just before he's killed by Doomsday and then doesn't rejoin until after the events of Midsummers Nightmare.

It seems that just before Idenity Crisis, all Superman lore was forgotten, and writers could just pick and choose what they wanted to use\identify\validate\change\dimiss.

Jimmy Olson got randomly younger and rebooted, the Legion was re-introduced, twice, etc.

I just read it now and dismiss continuity.

Different creators= different alternate Superman.

I prefer Byrne's Superman universe as well. It has a 'new' feel to it, even now, it is still fresh and classic at the same time. The man is a GENIUS!!!

I think when he re-booted the FF at #232 he started an awsome unparalelled run as well.

Thanks for bringing this up.

Sadly most folks didn't seem to like Byrne's take on Supes...

Truthfully, I liked Jurgens' run right after Byrne's more. But Byrne laid the groudwork for Jurgens, so I still appreciate it and enjoy it.